Author Topic: Potential servery changes  (Read 3319 times)

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Offline The Doctor

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Potential servery changes
« on: February 03, 2012, 03:36:19 PM »
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So there are a number of things being discussed at the moment regarding the minecraft server and I figured I would list them all out so everyone knows.

First is performance issues.  The server is constantly in a state of not happy.  It's surviving (mostly) but not pleased about it.  So anything to try to reduce the load on it is being discussed.  A lot of the stuff we're running produces a lot of load and we're quite active so it's kinda a uphill battle.

That being said it looks like all the mods we use have finally been ported to craftbukkit.  Bukkit has always been superior in performance in my experience and has a lot of good things that can be added, some of those are being discussed also.

One of the major load issues is the chunk loaders.  Testing removal of them cut CPU usage of the server in half.  Also they have been determined to be a major component in a client side lag problem that can occur and does for many people.  Especially those with less powerful systems.  So removal of those is being considered.

Now to me I've also always felt the teleport pipes were a bit cheap.  And without chunk loaders they lose a massive amount of usefulness.  So they are on the being thought about list.  Additionally in the wrong usage all of the server load.

Now there are some very legitimate uses of the chunk loaders like the nether draining mass fabricator setups so possibly making them place-able by ops/admins only and being very stingy with them is a possible solution.

That covers the current load thoughts going around.  Up next: Nether ores!  I thought it was a good idea to put them in, and everyone agreed to start, now that they've been there a while I've heard a lot of "Oh god exploding in my face" and "All the pigmen agro me."  Not a whole lot of positive remarks have been heard by me.  So I'm considering removing the mod.  It may be possible to simply remove the ores leaving the nether intact, it might take a nether reset to do it in which case there would be plenty of warning for everyone to clear their stuff out and likely a op assisted re setup afterwards.  I really want to hear other peoples opinions on this though.

Then there are the permissions of the server.  As it stands there is "op" and "not op" and that's it.  With bukkit permissions could be expanded to include more levels, potentially even having a guest setup so that anyone could join and look around but no block placement/removal or item use, and then whitelisting to a "can use the server" setup.  That would allow people to show off to their friends who might be interested in joining.  Op powers could be more refined as well drawing a distinction between able to kick/ban troublemakers or teleport users who became hopelessly lost and full admin levels.

Finally economy type things, Industrial Craft has the trade-o-mat and it's coinage but it's a case where the coins cost iron and that iron could be used for other things so it doesn't really help setup an economy.  A potential solution is to lock down so coins can only be admin spawned and then kick starting the economy by spawning a bunch.  Another option is to use one of bukkit's many economy mods (many of which have various sub mods ranging from auction houses to setting up shops to buy and sell items).  Either one of these could help out with player trading and dealing with the "Well how many iron is a diamond actually worth" type of deal.  A central bank could possibly happen to kickstart/supplement the general trading.  I'd like to hear what people have to say on this as well.

So there you all have it.  Discuss!
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Offline killer rin

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Re: Potential servery changes
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2012, 04:08:01 PM »
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Sounds good... also as a bonus with Craftbucket you would be able to use Spout (when they finish it)!

Offline mikethor007

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Re: Potential servery changes
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2012, 04:23:52 PM »
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Going for bukkit is a good move, yeah.

As for the chunk loader blocks, i don't see them as indispensable, except for mass fabricator setups like you mentioned.

Now for teleport pipes...I'd be against removing them. They're one of the only things that makes having remote quarries/oil rigs practical. Let's just say that placing a pipeline and a cable line for hundreds of blocks isn't practical at all, especially when I have to move the quarry when it finishes. With the teleport pipes i only need one pair to handle power, and one pair to handle item 'porting back to base. The same thing can be said for an oil rig (pump and refinery). One thing I want to know though, what is the radius (with center on the player) for chunks to be loaded in multiplayer?

Nether ores can go. They're not that really useful, what with the EXPLODE! thing and Pig Zombies going aggro through proximity. Yeah, they can sense you have ore through walls.

For the permission things, I'd say that would be cool. We just have to be careful so a guest won't be able to come in and abuse some sort of exploit to grief. The lockette plugin for bukkit comes to mind. When I played on a server that had it, people were able to abuse it and get inside other people's chests.

For the economy: I'd say go for it. Though I wouldn't participate much.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2012, 04:32:27 PM by mikethor007 »
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Offline Foxdonut

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Re: Potential servery changes
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2012, 06:04:24 PM »
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I like my nether ores. Although me and Destructo seem to be the only ones that actually utilize it.

Offline Camp12

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Re: Potential servery changes
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2012, 10:09:01 PM »
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I tried :(
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Offline mikethor007

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Re: Potential servery changes
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2012, 12:26:35 AM »
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Ahh, ok got it. My quarry must be at the extreme range before the chunk is unloaded from memory. To keep it running farther away than that, i'd need to plonk down chunkloaders to have its area covered by loaded chunks.

Yeah, that is a problem. I'll soon be running out of available space for running quarries in visible range of my base. And I'm loathe to go back to the grind of mining stuff by hand... X|
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Re: Potential servery changes
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2012, 12:29:54 AM »
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Ahh, ok got it. My quarry must be at the extreme range before the chunk is unloaded from memory. To keep it running farther away than that, i'd need to plonk down chunkloaders to have its area covered by loaded chunks.

Yeah, that is a problem. I'll soon be running out of available space for running quarries in visible range of my base. And I'm loathe to go back to the grind of mining stuff by hand... X|
I still mine by hand lol.

I don't see what wrong with it. A lot more adventurous. :D

Offline mikethor007

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Re: Potential servery changes
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2012, 12:56:23 AM »
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I still mine by hand lol.

I don't see what wrong with it. A lot more adventurous. :D
It gets boring after a while. I start to yawn and the like. Plus, it takes hours to get any sizeable quantity of resources, especially diamonds.

It is a very safe way of getting obsidian though. Just build a quarry on top of water. The water will fill the shaft, and when the drill head gets to lava, it'll automatically turn into obsidian.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2012, 12:58:43 AM by mikethor007 »
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Re: Potential servery changes
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2012, 11:33:01 AM »
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Economy system sounds good, so long as we can generate income and buy useful stuff later down the line. :D

Nether ores I say get rid of as my first nether run was met by explosions from the ground and the sky...not good. :D

The rest I haven't really used yet so I wouldn't know, I am still in basic stages I need to get my tower built.
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Offline amwdrizz

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Re: Potential servery changes
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2012, 11:39:54 AM »
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The Teleport pipes are nice, I do use them but not heavily.  Mostly its because of I don't want to run a pipe through a wall, etc to get it to the other location.  I've voiced my opinion on the bukkit stuff and its well worth it.  In terms of economy,etc iConomy looks nice with some of the additional plugins, etc. 

And I would like to see some more fresh blood on the server,  that and in combination with my 'project' will make those who are scared of editing their minecraft files a thing of the past; meaning more people will have access to the mods, etc.

Offline The Doctor

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Re: Potential servery changes
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2012, 05:32:58 PM »
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The Teleport pipes are nice, I do use them but not heavily.  Mostly its because of I don't want to run a pipe through a wall, etc to get it to the other location.  I've voiced my opinion on the bukkit stuff and its well worth it.  In terms of economy,etc iConomy looks nice with some of the additional plugins, etc. 

And I would like to see some more fresh blood on the server,  that and in combination with my 'project' will make those who are scared of editing their minecraft files a thing of the past; meaning more people will have access to the mods, etc.

Just a note on "fresh blood".  From everything I know of minecraft bandwidth it sounds way over what we've been doing but I've heard some "omgwtfbbq" at bandwidth usage from our most gracious host.  That in mind I'm somewhat reluctant to try and bring more people onto the server at the current time.  Potential solutions to this issue are limited with my current financial situation but being explored.
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Offline Nova

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Re: Potential servery changes
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2012, 09:54:34 PM »
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 :ninja: I changed a few things around that might help, but ultimately, minecraft is single threaded and you all have modded the hell out of it

Offline The Doctor

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Re: Potential servery changes
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2012, 05:29:11 AM »
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:ninja: I changed a few things around that might help, but ultimately, minecraft is single threaded and you all have modded the hell out of it

That we have...  One thing I can't figure out, on launch with no one on the server it immediately takes itself to 100% cpu and sits there.  When I run the exact same thing on my desktop here it doesn't pull a full core...  I'm pretty sure your server has a better CPU than my desktop...
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Offline Nova

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Re: Potential servery changes
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2012, 05:16:34 PM »
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:ninja: "Better CPU" does not necessarily mean better in all cases.  It is better in its core count, total perf from the chip, and perf per watt, but it could be a little slower per core, not sure and it does not matter much.  Also, I am not really sure what that CPU % is based on in the console.  Taking a look on that VM, not a single core is getting maxed (4 cores), but your instance of Java is using between 25 and 40% of the total every time I look (so, more than 1 full core worth).  The version of Java could also be out of date (it looks like there have been a few patches to it recently), and that could help some, but I doubt much.

Offline The Doctor

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Re: Potential servery changes
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2012, 03:13:58 PM »
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:ninja: "Better CPU" does not necessarily mean better in all cases.  It is better in its core count, total perf from the chip, and perf per watt, but it could be a little slower per core, not sure and it does not matter much.  Also, I am not really sure what that CPU % is based on in the console.  Taking a look on that VM, not a single core is getting maxed (4 cores), but your instance of Java is using between 25 and 40% of the total every time I look (so, more than 1 full core worth).  The version of Java could also be out of date (it looks like there have been a few patches to it recently), and that could help some, but I doubt much.

Depending on setup mine idles(no players) as low as 3-4% of my full chip, and goes as high as 20-25% at max.  I'd say about 15-17% of my whole chip is a good "average number of people on" percentage which just feels low compared to what it does on your server.
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Re: Potential servery changes
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2012, 05:41:35 AM »
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 :ninja: That is indeed odd, we need to do some more testing and see if we can figure anything out.

Offline The Doctor

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Re: Potential servery changes
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2012, 05:17:58 AM »
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:ninja: That is indeed odd, we need to do some more testing and see if we can figure anything out.

Indeed.
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